First Friday Feedback: February 2025

In this month's episode of First Friday Feedback, Phil discusses the importance of intentional wealth planning with Clark Brown, a Subject Matter Expert for Cannon and Founder of Hello Wealth. Together, they explore the concept of intentional planning, emphasizing the need to think divergently before convergently to avoid missing critical factors. Clark shares a practical tool involving four critical questions to guide planning and problem-solving, which is applicable in various aspects of life. Listen to this episode for insights on active listening and the importance of understanding clients' needs to build strong advisor-client relationships.

Resources:

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Clark Brown - LinkedIn

Transcript

Hi, I'm Phil Buchanan with Cannon Financial Institute. We produce the podcast series Monday Morning Mojo, The Cannon Curve, and Cannon Connect. Each of these podcasts invites listeners to email or text their feedback, comments, and questions. They are all answered right here on First Friday Feedback. If you're new to our podcast, go ahead and subscribe to all four and get engaged by sharing your perspective.

Life is about the journey. So let's go for the ride. Greatest Canada nation. It is Phil here with the first Friday feedback for February 2025. Hope everybody's new year got off to a great start that your month of January was everything that you wanted it to be. Plus some. I know that many of you were dealing with major weather certain parts of the United States, but spring is on its way.

My I guess it's my namesake. Maybe he was around before I was. Poxitani Phil out of, uh, Pennsylvania says that, uh, we're going to have six more weeks of winter, but something tells me the folks down in Naples, Florida, you're probably going to do okay. As you know, on First Friday Feedback, we respond to your comments, your observations, and your thoughts around either podcasts that we've done, information that we've shared, or coursework that we've done.

One of our most popular topics over the last several years has been the concept of planning but not planning in a basic sense, but intentional wealth planning for individuals and families so that we as advisors are always assured that we are addressing the most salient, the most relevant topics that are impacting our clients.

There is no better person, uh, to talk about intentional planning than our quote unquote guest today. Joining us today is Clark Brown. Clark is a long term colleague of mine, a subject matter expert for Cannon. He's an entrepreneur involved in several different businesses and a great thought leader around this concept of intentional planning.

Clark Brown, welcome to First Friday Feedback. Thank you. Great to be here. So Clark, when we put out the term intentional planning, and again, I'm very intentional to insert intentional before planning, what, what comes to your mind and the way that you think about planning, both as a role of an advisor and as an educator, what are the top two or three things that just immediately pop out to you?

So, you know, I think one of the things that happens sometimes when we're when we're planning or or problem solving is. We tend to think convergently at the start, like, let's get to it and try to solve the problem or try to, you know, build out whatever the steps are for the plan. And that can be a mistake because you miss things.

So the exercise I like to use when I approach something like that is a little bit more thoughtful. And so, you know, the first step is thinking about, okay, what is the objective? What are you trying to do? So the first thing I like to think about in, in, in planning is. That the mistake we often make is we, we tend to get really convergent, really fast on what it is we're trying to achieve, what problem we're trying to solve.

And when you do that, sometimes you miss things. So the exercise is to first think divergently. And then to come back to the convergent, and there's a tool set I've learned from a guy by the name of Charles Kepner. And, uh, if you remember the movie Apollo 13? Sure. Remember the scene where a guy walks in and he empties out a box onto the table and he tells the other scientists at NASA, This is what we have in the capsule to try and get these guys down.

I did. Do you remember that saying that was Charles Kepner. And, and he was a, uh, a process systems engineer, problem solver, consultant at NASA at the time. Subsequently went on and built his own consulting. business called Kepner Trego, which was worldwide, worked with major, you know, Fortune 100 companies.

Uh, and he had a toolbox of all these different types of problem solving tools. And one of his tools, uh, is described as the four critical questions. And that these are the questions you need to examine to help you think. Divergently before you start to zero in on the solution and and that what they can do is lead you to a set of what you might describe as critical success factors, right?

That that at the end, here's the things that we need to pay attention to and prioritize them. And the questions are pretty simple, but the skill within it is that you really need to think about who are all the stakeholders That are involved in this and stakeholders can be either those people who are going to influence the outcome.

So the decision makers, people working on it, uh, or the people involved in the task and and you also need to think about it from the standpoint of who will be influenced, right? Who's the customer? Who's the client? Who are the people that are going to be impacted by this? And so you make a list of the stakeholders and then the From the perspective of each stakeholder.

You answer these four questions. And so the first question is simply what's the desired outcome, right? What are we looking for at the end? How will we know that we succeeded? So we could describe this as the goal or the objective. And again, thinking from the perspective of each of the stakeholders.

Second question, what are the symptoms that we need to address, right? So what's currently going wrong, the problem that we're, you know, that we're experiencing, how is that impacting? And symptoms are not simply the absence of the objective, right? So, you know, what's the objective? Well, we want to grow more revenue.

What's the symptom? We don't have enough revenue No, that's you know, that's not that's not it. There's there's something else that is the cause of that, right? So really to dive into that and again thinking of it from the perspective of of each of the stakeholders The third question then is what are the risks?

That we need to mitigate or avoid and Again thinking of it from the perspective of each of the stakeholders These are the yeah bots or the oh what could go wrong or the what ifs? And then finally the last question is maybe kind of just a catch all to some degree Which is, you know, what are the, the resources or the context or maybe cultural considerations that we need to take into account, you know, we can come up with a great solution, but, you know, it's 100 million.

Now that we're not doing that, right? So, you know, knowing what those parameters are when you start and it doesn't have to take a long time. I mean, this can be an exercise with, uh, you know, the key people sitting around the table and within 25 minutes. You know, flesh this out. And then you take a look at what's come up.

What's the work product of the answers that you've come to? And, and there will typically be seven to nine things that just kind of jump out as, as like, okay, these are the big ones. And, and so we want to extract what we think the most important ones are and then prioritize them because they all don't, they don't all have the same priority.

And then that becomes the list of critical success factors. Um, and I've, I've I've used this. Uh, in our work at Cannon and problem solving and and developing solutions for for organizations and institutions. I've used this with my clients in my own financial planning practice when we're we're doing something is planning as simple as planning a family meeting, right?

And this was a really great exercise where, you know, I'm sitting with mom and dad and they're in their late sixties. And, you know, one of the things that comes up is we're talking about You know, planning for incapacity and continuity. And, you know, they have one child, a daughter, who's a professional in her mid thirties and married, uh, and is, uh, as they described it, a very well organized person.

And which is why, you know, in part by she was successful in her career. But if, if something were to happen to them, they didn't want this to be something dumped on her. Because she likes to know. What's going on? So we decided it would be a good idea to sit down with her and her husband and kind of explain what the game plan was in the event that dad has a stroke, dad passes away, right?

Those type of things, because she was named as the attorney. In fact, on the durable power of attorney, she was named as the, you know, successor trustee, et cetera. And so, you know, and a lot of people, they don't really. Think about that in wealth planning. They just sit with the attorney and the attorney goes, you know, who do you want to name?

Well, we'll name so and so. And, and then it's like, you know. Surprise! You got a new job! Right? So, so we, we whiteboarded the four critical questions and, and it helped us come up with an agenda for how we were going to run the meeting, what we were going to share, what we weren't going to share, and how, you know, how at the end of this, the daughter was going to feel very confident about, Uh, what the game plan was in in terms of this contingency plan.

Um, and the meeting went great. And, you know, when the daughter and husband became clients and, you know, it worked out well for for for everybody. But as I said, it's a simple tool and it helps you to really think, you know, big picture before you zero in on. Okay, what do we need to accomplish? You know, what is what is so great about what you've just outlined?

Clark is it? It really is. And again, you, you, you say it's very simple and most of the greatest things in life are pretty simple, right? Um, we just tend to tend to overlook them, but you know, I think about the, the, the typical approach that take a retail advisor for a moment, you know, when you first get started in the business, you're taught all the facts, features, and benefits of the products and services that you've got the ability to recommend.

And so it's, it's, it's all a push. You're, you're, you're trying to find somebody to buy what you're selling. you've got. And, you know, hopefully you develop over time and awareness that, you know, the skill set of engaged dialogue, engaged conversation is going to get you a lot further down the line. Good discovery.

Um, understand pain points. And then over the last, you know, it's probably been, I guess, in the last 10 years. You know, we as an industry have gotten much more intentional on financial planning. And thus, you know, today, MoneyGuidePro, eMoney, RightCapital, those are tools that, that everybody has in their toolbox.

But what you're talking about is how we are able to get to a point to be able to use those. in a very successful way. It's the, it's the, it's the tee up. It's how you get started. And again, four very simple questions, you know, goals, number two, symptoms, number three, risk to mitigate, number four, you know, resources of considerations.

And that's something I, I want to make sure our listeners Catch this. That's something that works in almost any aspect of life. It's not just getting ready for a family meeting. It's not just getting ready to do a financial plan. It's not just getting ready to do a foundation or an endowment review. This is something we can use everywhere, right?

Absolutely. You know, um, you know, the discovery process that, that, uh, I, I like to use, um, has this embedded in it together with. Um, you know, a, a, a coaching aspect to it. Um, you know, but the first step is to help people kind of just pull out, what are their priorities? And, uh, you know, we have a card sorting exercise that works in that.

We also have the list of 13 wealth management issues that lists, you know, what are the types of things that we need to zero in on and, and that's kind of that first step of setting, what's the objective, what are we, you know, what are we trying to solve for and then getting people to describe. Okay. So what would that look like?

And then the symptoms. So what's getting in the way today? What, you know, what are you doing or not doing that makes this a priority? And the risks will come out from that. Uh, and then, and then really this where kind of the coaching piece kind of comes into it, then zeroing in on why, you know, why this end state matters to them.

And, and, and that's, you know, that's the point in terms of the connection that the advisor can make with the client when it's important. When the client understands that the advisor understands and, and you're there. Yep. You absolutely are. You know, I gave a, uh, a talk earlier this week about, uh, the ubiquity.

that we see within the industry. Um, it, it's incredibly difficult, uh, to differentiate oneself or one's firm from other firms from other advisors because everybody's very talented. Everybody's very educated. Everybody's got credentials. You know, everybody's got skills. Everybody's got very similar tools and resources.

There's there. There is no magic bullet. And, you know, my, my comment to that group was it is the connection that you make with a prospector client through the conversations that you have that are going to convey to that client exactly what you're talking about right there, Clark, that you as an advisor, get them, you, you understand them as individuals.

It's not an account balance. It is not, you know, the, the, the stated goal, if you will, but it's, it's that connection. And, uh, and you lay out a, uh, boy, a very, very relevant way to get there. Everybody's going to, cause that, that's, that's the way that we are in this industry. We're going to look at it and say, well, Yeah, but you know, what about this?

What about that? Are there any gaps? I'll, I'll, I'll turn it on you right now. The risk. Are there any things that you've learned that, you know, hey, be, be very cognizant when you go into a conversation like this of, are there any gotchas that are potentially out there? You know, again, you could say it's simple, but sometimes simple is hard.

You need to listen, right? You know, and you need to listen to the words and you need to listen to the, the meaning and, and all the nonverbal stuff. And, you know, it's that exercise of, of active listening and, and then playing back to somebody, what you believe you understand. to confirm you got it. Because like the worst thing you could do is say, Oh, I understand, but, but you really don't.

Right. And we've all been in those conversations where somebody is telling you, Oh, I understand. I understand. And you're like going, no, you don't. And the more they say it, the more pissed off you get. Right. Correct. And so, you know, it's you, you seek the information, you ask the questions and then you use something like.

Let me play this back. Make certain I got this right. And you feed it back. And, uh, and they'll tell you whether or not you've got it right or not. Um, but if you did get it right, which hopefully if you were listening, you will, that's the point at which they go. This guy understands me. Yeah, number, number one issue I see is exactly what you have just described.

Professionals going into a conversation, listening for something as opposed to listening to the prospect or the client, the couple, the family. We need to stop listening for, we need to start listening to. And people know that you have listened to them when you, you've got the words. I love what you had to say.

When you've got the words, the tonation and the nonverbals, because, you know, we've all, we've all heard this play out, but, uh, body language and, and tonation count for a lot more than the actual choice of word in most instance. Uh, that's especially true when there are multiple people in the room. And then your technique of playing back Clark, if.

Let me play back for you what I understood you to say. It is in that moment that the magic happens. Uh, that's just, that's just absolutely beautiful. Clark, let me ask you this. If, if people are at a point where they're saying, you know, Okay, I, I get this. I don't want to go out this afternoon and try this with one of my best clients.

How did, how did you begin implementing that? How have you seen the best advisors begin implementing this, this simple four questions into their business? How, how do we take baby steps to, uh, to get the reps that were comfortable in doing this across our, uh, our entire book of relationships? I don't know.

Maybe I might start with the four critical questions.

Right. Beautiful. That is beautiful. Yeah. So I'm going into this meeting with the client. What's, what's my objective? What are we trying to achieve? Okay. What is it they're looking for? Right. What, what am I looking for? What are the symptoms? What are the risks? What are they? Right. How do we need to, it'll guide you.

It'll, it'll help you solve for that. Absolutely. I, I think I may take these four questions and apply it to my next vacation. This is, uh, this is a beautiful way to live life, right? That's right. Clark, there are going to be some people that may have, uh, additional questions and additional comments. We will link your, uh, your contact information in the show notes to this.

Any, uh, any final words of wisdom you would, uh, share with our listeners? Stay tuned. We're putting together, we're putting together a two day workshop for this that, uh, you know, will help elevate your planning practice. Parting words of wisdom to recap what I've said. Be curious, ask the questions, listen, and, and confirm your understanding.

And, you know, this is how I've built my practice. It's what I teach when, uh, I'm working with advisors and my, my work with Cannon and, you know, I would say stay tuned. We're, uh, we've got a two day workshop that we've delivered all over the country that, uh, we're hoping to maybe bring to, uh, bring to our school's menu.

And, uh, if your firm hasn't brought us in for this, we'd be happy to, but, uh, you can sign up for the school. Outstanding Clark Brown. You're a testament of what is right in this business. You, uh, you apply great principles, not only to, uh, to your business of, of advisory work, but certainly in your, uh, your, your coaching and teaching, it has been a pleasure to have you on first ride feedback.

Thank you. Great to be in here. Thank you. First Friday Feedback is a production of Cannon Financial Institute. Executive Producer of First Friday Feedback is Sarah Jones. Editing and Mixing is done by Danny Brunner. Production Manager is McCall Chamberlain. So until next month, I'm Phil Buchanan thanking you for being part of the Cannon family.