First Friday Feedback: October 2025

In this month's episode of First Friday Feedback, Phil sits down with Jeff Cobb, Executive Vice President at Cannon Financial Institute and a lead instructor in the Certified Wealth Strategist® (CWS®) program, for a thought-provoking conversation on what truly sets top advisors apart. Rather than focusing on credentials or technical know-how, they dive into the real differentiator: mastering the “how” of client engagement. Through sharp insights, listener feedback, and real-world examples, the episode challenges advisors to rethink their approach, elevate their conversations, and focus on human connection as they prepare for 2026 and beyond.

Resources:

CWS Designation

Please send Comments, Questions, and Feedback to: mojo@cannonfinancial.com

Please send First Friday Feedback submissions to: mojo@cannonfinancial.com

Transcript

 Hi, I am Phil Buchanan with Cannon Financial Institute. We produce the podcast series Monday Morning Mojo, the Cannon Curve, and Cannon Connect. Each of these podcasts invites listeners to email or text their feedback, comments and questions. They are all answered right here on First Friday feedback. If you're new to our podcast, go ahead and subscribe to all four and get engaged by sharing your perspective. Life is about the journey. So let's go for the ride.

Hello, Cannon Nation. It is Phil here with First Friday feedback for October, 2025. Joining me in the studio today is Jeff Cobb, executive Vice president of Cannon Financial Institute and one of the lead Certified Wealth Strategist designation instructors, Jeff. Welcome to First Friday feedback.

Phil, it's great here. Great to be a part of the series. Excited about our conversation today. Well, you and I have jointly taught a lot of classes together through the years. We've played a lot of golf. We've done a podcast or two, so can't wait to unpack the discussion today.

You know, the. The, the big thing about today, and we've got some, some listener feedback we're gonna gonna get to in just a few moments. It all ties into a lot of the work that we've been, we've been focused on, as I mentioned in the, in the opening, you're one of the, the lead facilitators of a certified wealth strategist program. I thought it might be good. Just to unpack that a little bit, how do you describe when somebody says CWS or Certified Wealth Strategist, what, what's that program all about? Is it, is it yet another designation? What's the purpose? What's, what's the intent of the program? How do I benefit? All of those questions come up and you know.

We don't, we don't talk in terms of elevator pitches around Cannon. That's not what people, they're not looking for the, the, the, the ten second soundbite. They really wanna understand. How do you explain that program to people in the wealth management industry?

I. I think it's really easy to differentiate it with the ten second soundbite, which is, it's the difference between the what and the how to.

Okay. And as simple as that sounds, as many advisors as I've talked to over the years, as much time as I spent as an advisor, knowing the what It is really the easy part. You know, when you think about, I'm supposed to do that, I'm supposed to do this, I'm supposed to do the other, but that, how do I do it better?

I think what really creates that, that question mark or that really unknown as advisors really try to improve and elevate what they're doing with their clients. What can I do to differentiate myself? What can I do to demonstrate that, that I am worthy of the commitment of this client and help make a difference in their lives?

Well, you know, you and I have both, I think, gone over a lot of bridges. There's a lot of water under our bridges throughout our career. I know when you got started, same with me. When I got started, we all kind of, kind of came up in, in a particular vertical. You know, you cut your teeth predominantly in the insurance and risk management field.

Um, a lot of advisors maybe came up through the banking channel or maybe they came up. Through the investment channel. Maybe they started off, you know, as in the, in the trust field and. We all developed that, that technical knowledge that allowed us to be aware of the, what? I'm going to use your, your terms right here.

We were taught the what we, we, we needed to know all the ins and outs of how the products and services worked and you know, in what types of situations that they were most attributable to. I always looked at that as the, the academic competency that you needed to have. Those were, were table stakes to, to be in the business, but to your point about how to engage clients, how to, how to utilize that knowledge with a client.

That's, that's the differentiator, right? That's what you're talking about. That really set somebody apart Today. Everybody's smart. Everybody you know, has the, the competency piece. So they're on their way to, to getting that. So how exactly, again, from an explanation standpoint, does somebody going through that program with you, how do you develop the, the how capability?

You know, it's interesting. I think we are all driven to focus on the what, let's go back to your comment of however you entered into the business. You know, you hear about our new product at the bank, our new, our new account, our new service. We, if it's in the risk management field, here's the policy, here are the riders, here are the, the definitions, here are the benefits.

Whatever it is, that's the way things are brought to us, and it's because we need to know what's there and, and, and how to discuss it. But unfortunately, very people, very few people really think about it from the standpoint of, okay, well what should be happening in the lives of the people, the lives of the people I'm talking with, which create the opportunity to explore if something like that might be of value.

I was very fortunate that early in my career I actually had someone that called on me in my office, and never once did he talk about his product, which I thought was very different. He always started off with, who are you talking to? What are they talking about? What's happening in their life? And it made me start thinking about things a little bit differently.

It it's about understanding the. If we recognize what's happening and how the impact of what's happening might create some sort of opportunity and or challenge in the future, now we can start thinking about those knowledge pieces, those those products and services that might plug in. And I think if you'll just simply switch the way that you think about things as you begin to try to really grow the way you engage.

That's the first step. So it's looking at it through the eyes of the client. What does the client see? When they see you, you know, what, what's going on in their mind? What's going on in their life? What are the unique family dynamics? You know, it's, it's interesting you bring this up. I've just recorded a podcast that will be part of the Monday Morning Mojo series in, in a week or so on, on.

This very issue. And it is, we tend to orient our conversations around the knowledge that we have, how our organizations are set up, how our businesses are aligned, and we talk in terms of, you know, the client I specialize in serving, we talk in terms of our process, but clients don't think in those terms.

They, they think in their own terms about the life they're living every day and the issues and challenges that they're facing. And until advisors engage with them where they are. About where they are in their life. You can forget all of the rest of the product knowledge because you know, it, it, at best, it's gonna be a product pitch on our part.

Is that, is that what I'm hearing? I, I think that is spot on. You know, if we don't recognize, to your point where they are and we try coming in with where we want to be, no matter how good we are at it, we are not gonna resonate. But I'll take it one step further because as I think about a client and where they are sometimes.

They don't know where they are. You know, they're not aware of these things because they don't live in the world that we live in. And I think that adding to the ability to, to bridge that knowing and doing gap is the ability to ask questions to help people think differently. I, I think my number one value.

Should be perspective. It's not my product, it's not my service, it's not my result. It's my perspective and my perspective helps people think about things differently. And if I can't help somebody think about something differently, quite frankly, I don't offer any value. And back to your original point about the Certified Wealth Strategist designation.

As I'm working with advisors going through this, I try to make sure they are aware of that. That focus on perspective. If you can get in front of somebody and share perspective, that's where you're giving them the opportunity to determine, is this the sort of partnership I'd like to have? And to your point, I wanna work with people who are looking for that kind of partnership.

I had the opportunity to address a, a, a group of very seasoned professionals recently, and I, I posed the question to the group, you know, what, what is your role and how do you see your role with a client? And one particular individual had a, she had a wonderful comment and we distilled it down. She sees herself as being a strategic fault partner.

Mm-hmm. With her clients now. I had to think about that a little bit because I've used that, that, that term thought partner, but she, she added the word strategic thought partner to help people rise above the, the, the moment that they're in and look at the total landscape of, of what's going on in their world.

She said, you know, you gotta poke it. You gotta prod and make sure that they're, they're thinking about the, the comprehensive nature of, of what their life is about. You know, we tend to, as humans, we tend to react in the moment quite often. You know, something, something pops up, we gotta fix it, we gotta address it.

But, you know, I, I really loved. Her comment that that strategic thought partner and when I have the opportunity to engage with, with the graduates of our, our CWS program and, and sometimes participate in person in, in some of those pieces, I I really try to reiterate that point that, you know, your job is, is not to sell your job is, is really not to tell your job is to do really, really good discovery and a little bit of provocation.

So that people are thinking at a, at a deeper level. So give us an example of if, if you can, not, not necessarily by name of of individuals, but a couple of scenarios where you have seen people evolve through this process and you've seen them, you know, change their tax, change, their approach, and what have been some of the results.

In the recent class that we were doing, uh, from one of our schools, I recently was having a, a review with a student's submission. And, you know, as I was reading through, I, I can see how they change, how they begin to elevate the way that they talk about things and they. Position things. But you know, he had put a little note down at the bottom of it and he said, this was the switch.

As I went through this particular one, I sort of now begin to feel comfortable with how this flows and how it changes. He said, I have been so focused on telling that now I recognize that the more I can get them to tell me is the key to the success. So anytime I can see somebody go through that transition.

You know, many people want to tell people how smart they are and how much they want to know, and I try, I kind of remind them, nobody cares, but if you can get them to tell you now you're really making a difference. It, it's funny you bring that up. My old tagline on that is if I as the advisor, I'm telling a client what to do in the client's eyes, that's my opinion.

That's correct. But when the client tells me what they need to do, and they're on the right track. All of a sudden that's a fact. You know, because they're saying it. And now I'm again, that thought partner of helping them to determine, okay, how are you gonna do that? Right? And that that is, that, that is that magic evolution.

I, I absolutely love that. Well, let, let's talk a little bit about confidence, because I think that is, to me, one of the bigger. Deltas or shifts that I see in advisors coming through the program and it's not, it's not necessarily confidence with broader wealth issues, but it's confidence. With the conversations around those challenges with clients, what's the, what's the secret sauce to developing that, that confidence?

Is it simply repetition or is there. There's something else that's going on. Well, there's two pieces. First off, in order to develop that confidence, you do have to have some knowledge. I have to be able to recognize as we're having a conversation, ah, that's something that we can explore deeper while we're having the conversation.

Not when I get back to the office and I reflect back on it, you know? But while we're having the conversation. But to your point, it, it's recognizing, okay, here's something I can dig in on, but because I know how it operates, how it works, how it connects, how it's a part of. I feel better about asking and exploring and really beginning to understand.

We start asking questions with a purpose. Purpose in that I know likely how the response is gonna be, but that's just gonna help me get a little deeper into the understanding of the situation, which really gives me the opportunity to position myself as that partner to help them navigate it. Yeah, that whole process of discovery, some people use discovery to identify an opportunity to pitch an idea, whereas true professionals go through that process of discovery.

And actually I've, I've, I've used this term with an eye to being agnostic. As to what may come from that conversation. I'm, I'm not, I'm not asking the question to lead somebody down a happy path to allow myself to, to, to pitch an idea, pitch a product. It is truly to understand where that individual or where that family is, because, you know, as a, as a strategic thought partner as that, that, that overall wealth that.

Advisor, I've got the capacity either through my own firm or my broader network to solve a myriad of issues that clients face. And what I'm really here to do is to help ensure that that client, that client's family, is in a better position because of the interaction they've had with us. At the end of the day, they're in a better position than they were coming in.

Right? You know, it'd be so easy if every client, every prospect, every suspect we talk to, could come in and say. Here's what I need, here's what I know. Here's where I I wanna be. But unfortunately, they don't know that. Right? They don't know what we know. They don't know what they don't know. They do know they don't want us to tell 'em what to do.

But I think I go back to, from what you're sharing, back to where you said something earlier. With our conversations, with our questions, we gently push them outta their comfort zone, which helps them look at their situation with a different lens, which begins to help them open up and tell us things that they didn't even know they were supposed to tell us.

They didn't know how to tell us much less that they were supposed to tell us, but now we start to open things up. We start to create that difference. Well, let's, let's get into a little bit of the feedback that we've received over the last month, and they, both of the, the, the ones that we're gonna cover today speak directly to the issues in Monday Morning Mojo, episode 716.

It was entitled, “Connections Over Credentials”. You know, I talked about, you know, this, this issue that far too many individuals believe that, you know, what sets them apart is, is their knowledge. What sets them apart are their credentials and the credentials of their colleagues. And, and yes, we, we. That is important, as you said, that's, that's really table stakes.

You have to, you have to have the knowledge to recognize what's going on. You have to have the resources, either yourself within your firm or by extension, other experts outside your firm. But in that, we talked about the fact that that clients follow advisors who they can relate to. And who the advisor can relate to them.

It's not just about the knowledge, it's about that conversation. And we don't, we don't ever reference the actual name of our, of our, our, our commenters for, for privacy issues. So I'll use the phonetics. So, uh, this was from Mike Alpha Kilo. She wrote to me in a, in an email. Best six minutes and 42 seconds of my day, and then went on in a release to the advisors within her firm.

She said, as we close out another long and action packed day, a friendly reminder and maybe a different way for all of us to think about how we serve our clients. Quote, human connection becomes the true differentiator unquote. React to that? Well, I think sometimes we get caught up in our, in our, our words and our eloquence of, of different strategies and you know, different possibilities and all this kinda stuff. And it sounds really cool to us because it makes them, makes the person in front of us think like we're really experienced. But if I can't connect to you where you are in a way that makes you feel comfortable, whether it's as simple as an anecdote or analogy or.

Just as simple as simplification of the information. I'm not gonna be very, very successful. I, I, I challenge people constantly as you're providing ideas. Don't start with the title of the idea. Instead, simply talk about one idea and talk about how it operates and how it works, and how it solves, and how it, how it helps, and how it assists and, and why it's important and how it's different.

We think that the client, because we get it. Understands the what's in it for them, but too often they don't understand because we're talking in our world and our, and our jargon, and they just sort of, kind of nod their heads and just kind of just go along with it or, or just say, well, we'll just, we'll think about it when really we haven't connected in any way at all.

Well, it goes back to what both of us were, were undergrads at the University of Georgia. We, and we've talked about this in the past, we both had. Numerous classes. I would even say most of my classes where there was a PhD at the front of the room and there was no doubt that individual knew what he or she was talking about.

There is no doubt in the world. But they were using and, and it was English, but they were using words and phrases and explanations that meant nothing to me. And I'd even believe it or not, I had read the information ahead of time, but they weren't. Connecting it in a way that I could relate to, and that's that.

That's really what this is all about, connecting with the client, using stories, metaphors, analogies and and phrases that they use in their life. You know, the ability to relate a story to a business owner and put it in. His terms or her terms is going to be so much more powerful than using your wealth management ease language.

Right, right. I, I think that too many people tend to think that they're dumbing things down or they're putting things in a more common language, but simplification wins every single time. I don't care what the level of wealth, if you can distill it down. If you can simplify it, you're gonna be ahead. Yep.

Very, very well said. Let's move to our, our second piece of feedback, and this one came as a result of episode 717, and that one was entitled, you're Not the Star. They Are. In that, I talked about the fact that far, far, far too many organizations. Basically are sharing the same story with clients about who they are, and it's, it's my long running story about the proverbial wheel.

It, it, it seems like 80 to 90% of financial institutions today have a wheel and it shows the advisor and the client at the center of the wheel and all the different products and services of the organization they can draw upon to, to solve issues for the client. And again, back to, back to your point, those are table stakes.

And you know, you letting me know that, you know, you, you've got banking services and trust services and investment services. I wouldn't be sitting in the chair having the conversation with you if I assumed you didn't have that. And so you telling me the same story I've heard from three other firms? Uh, yeah.

Are, are you more committed to service than they are? Are you. More credential than they are. Do you have more lines of business than they do? I mean that that really doesn't separate us. And this commenter. And this commenter is Echo Alpha, wrote in and said, Phil, I wanted to thank you for this episode, especially.

It is so true. Just shut up and listen. Don't try to convince them of your resources and expertise. It's assumed or they wouldn't be in the chair talking to you. Ultimately the wealth management trust business is a people business, not a credentialed or years of experience, or billions in assets under management business.

The lessons I have learned about this have allowed me to succeed. Put yourself in the other person's shoes and really listen to 'em. Honestly, a lot of what we do is a form of personal therapy. All the expertise, credentials, and resources come into play. Yes, but only after the personal connection. Respond to that.

Well, I think that it is without question that many advisors think that they have to start every relationship by letting me look at your statements. Let me look at what you have. Let me look at, you know, how it's performing or what your allocation is. And that's really important. But it's important after I take the opportunity to really understand you and what your passions are and what your, what your challenges are.

And you're not gonna just voluntarily just hand those out. That's gotta be part of a conversation where we take the time to truly get to know you. I, I think probably one of the more common and easy things to say to every single client is, the one thing that limits my ability to be helpful is lack of information.

The more you share about you, the more helpful I can be. Hand in glove. It seems that, and I haven't seen the latest survey, but the, the just past survey about what a, an affluent client, a high net worth client looks for from their financial professional. The number one thing is to know me, and that doesn't mean my name and my address and my dog's name.

That means really understand that what drives me and, and what I'm thinking about, and I think those that recognize the value of that. Find themselves continuing to grow every single day. Yeah, that's exactly right. And you know, one, one final little knit on all of this, almost every firm that we work with in, in some way, shape or form, has capital markets asset management or investment management is, is, is part of their core offering.

And the thing that I, I find really, really interesting is that the majority of these organizations purport to specialize in working with high net worth at. Ultra high net worth clients that's, that's their focus. Yet one of the earliest things that they try to distinguish themselves on is their investment management capability.

And when you talk to high net worth and ultra high net worth clients. Capital markets investment management is not in the top five of things that they are concerned about as it pertains to their overall life. Many of these people are business owners, so they've, they've got their business and concerns, they've got family dynamics.

If they've got two or more children, they've probably got concerns about, you know, one of the kids or one of the kids' relationship with their spouse, a significant other, or they, they're, they're, they're concerned about legacy. There's so many. Other things that are out there. And so we wind up, you know, talking at a client about an issue that's not in their top five level of importance.

And we believe that that somehow is going to going to help us win the business. And so it's important to keep in mind that, you know, when we go into that, that discovery process to understand from the lens of the client what's really important. And the only way to find that out is really to ask them.

But you have to ask them in a way that they're comfortable sharing. And again, sometimes pushing them a little bit out of their comfort zone with the way you ask questions to help them reflect in ways that perhaps they have not reflected. I I, I think that's where we really start helping people see that we're committed to them.

Simply their, their finances, and when they know that we're committed to them, I think everything else falls into place. Yeah. You're doing a lot of work as I am right now, helping firms, helping businesses get ready for 2026, doing a lot of, a lot of business planning, a lot of analysis on, on what's working, what's not working.

We've talked about several things here today that advisory advisory firms should be taking a, a real hard look at on the. On the, how to get back to your, your initial comments. It's not just the what, it's the how. If, if there was one area that, that you would encourage just about every firm to take a hard look at as they get ready for 2026.

What's that? What's that one, one tidbit that you'd say Keep your eye on this as you go forward in 26. I, I don't know so much as a keep your eye on this, but the one thing that I think that every firm really falls short on is in encouraging their team to actually practice and get more comfortable with conversations that they're not comfortable with.

You know, it's interesting. I was, I was just recently looking at a. At a submission from someone in the Certified Wealth Strategist Designation course, and one of their leaders had said that they practiced or redid that submission and very face, very facetiously, said a hundred times. Maybe it wasn't a hundred, maybe it was 10.

But you know what? Every time that they practiced, they became more confident, more comfortable, more eloquent in the way they said things. I, I think for some reason, that people in our world avoid that. Focus on practice. And if a firm could only encourage or certainly foster an environment that encourages people to actually practice what they're trying to do and become more comfortable with it, I think that in itself would make a big difference.

So to take that and, and put it in layman's terms to tell a story around it. I know a lot of our listeners are golfers. Jeff is a very accomplished golfer. I attempt to play at the game occasionally. It's. The, the art of client conversations is a skill, much like putting a golf ball or hitting a golf ball.

Right. I would agree. And, you know, it's, it's one thing to know the rules of golf. It's, it's, it's something else to read a book about golf. It's something else to, to read Golf Digest and how different people do things. Until you go to the driving range, until you go to the practice green, until you go out and and practice on the course, you really aren't gonna be able to assimilate and make marked improvements.

Just knowing, again, back to your early comments, knowing what to do versus knowing how to do them is something entirely different. Right? The only way to know how. Is to practice. Incredibly well said. Jeff Cobb, executive vice president and one of the lead instructors in our CWS certification program. It has been a pleasure to be with you on first Friday feedback.

Thank you for the opportunity. First Friday feedback is a production of Cannon Financial Institute; executive producer of First Friday Feedback is Sarah Jones. Editing and mixing is done by Danny Brunner. So until next month, this is Phil Buchanan thanking you for being part of the Cannon community.