Episode 108 - Rebecca Robinson

In this episode of The Cannon Curve, Phil welcomes Rebecca Robinson, Executive Vice President and Director of Wealth Management at Zions Bancorporation, to discuss navigating the wealth management industry with a long-term perspective. Robinson champions a "patiently persistent" approach, focusing entirely on the client experience to cut through industry noise. 

Learn her strategies for building sustainable teams through advice-driven training and career pathing rather than just chasing experienced hires. Plus, find out how to bridge the gap between commercial banking and wealth management to capture generational wealth. Tune in for invaluable leadership lessons on marathon thinking and maintaining calm under pressure.

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Transcript

Phil: Well, hello Cannon Nation. It is Phil here with episode 108 of the Cannon Curve, the Cannon curve. We take the opportunity to spend time with thought leaders, both within the industry and outside the industry, to give some perspectives and insights and to bring moments of clarity to what otherwise could be.

Sometimes a very. Confusing industry, this wealth management industry that we're a part of today. I'm joined by a longtime friend, somebody that I have admired for her ability to take the long view on almost any challenge that I have seen her undertake in her career. Uh, Rebecca Robinson is the executive Vice President and Director of Wealth Management for Zions Bankcorp, and she, she came into this role having had.

Senior roles at PWC and both at Wells Fargo and Rebecca. It's, it, it, it's good to be with you again. Welcome to the counting curve.

Rebecca: Thank you, Phil. It's always a pleasure.

Phil: Well, you know, when I, when I think about you, Rebecca, and I, I want you to unpack this a little bit. Ask to describe you again, somebody that I admire, somebody that I respect, but for, for a unique reason.

Yes, great leader, good communicator and all that, but. You are somebody that is patiently persistent, maybe that has something to do with your accounting consulting background. How have you been able to master this, this trait, this characteristic of being able to, to take the long view approach to what at times can feel like a very urgent and almost sometimes crisis oriented environment that we live in.

Rebecca: So, you know, when I think about the long game, I think what's really important is you have to decide. What you want a client experience to be. I mean, really in this business, if you anchor on the client experience, a lot of noise goes away. And then there's the path from where you are to how you get there.

And you know that's also, people are evolving. Things are always evolving. But once you set that path, you also have to be relentlessly brave. You have to know that there will be. Some downsides along the way. Not everybody wants to come with you. Maybe it's not the right path for everyone, but that persistence is, is if I have a goal and I believe in that goal and I believe in where we're going, then you just keep chipping away at it.

Decide who wants to come with you, and then do not let go of that, and don't let go of that end game.

Phil: Well, I'm gonna have to add tenacity to a descriptor then, because I, I, I do see that in, in everything that you pursue, whether it is within wealth management, you're a major athlete. I mean, everything you do, you, you kind of sink your teeth into it.

And I think that's important for all of us to bear in mind because, you know, there are days that the downsides look more glaring than the upsides. But believing in that mission and having, I, I, I'll, I'll, I'll call it your, your, your GuideStar right there. The client experience. What? What do our families that work with us, what do they see?

What do they feel? What do they experience? And let's make that elite. If you keep that as your guide star, then you know the answers kind of, kind of come out, if you will. Every time there's a challenge, right?

Rebecca: I think that the answers come out and also just knowing who wants to progress with you comes out as well.

So I think when we think of this business and how much it has changed, how much it has evolved, how much need there is, if you can be persistent. You'll build your teams, you'll build your leadership teams, you'll benefit your clients because it's really important that you're not kind of vacillating with every single news article that comes out, or you have to say, we're going to evolve this business, but it's an evolution, not a revolution.

And having that that end game in mind is a thing, I think helps you take the steps without also imploding the things that are working and are important to people as well.

Phil: Well, you know, all of this makes you uniquely qualified to, to opine on a couple of things, so, so, okay. I'm going to do a little lightning round with you on kind of the state of the state today because, you know, you've got not only the lens of your organization, but you are, uh, very involved in the broader community of practice, numerous round tables and, and leadership roles within the industry.

So. As we think about the landscape today, one of the, one of the big things that I, I hear from your counterparts, you and I have talked about at your organization, this, this, this focus on recruiting, and I, I'm gonna use your words kind of back to you getting, getting the right people engaged that. Buy into this, this mission of the client experience.

What, what's happening in financial services right now, specifically in wealth with recruiting? It seems that, that everybody is interested in experienced advisors, they're interested new advisors. What, what's your lens on that?

Rebecca: I, you know, I think recruiting is a challenge. We all hear there are more advisors leaving the business than coming in, but I, I have a little different perspective.

I think if we are trying to replace advisors leaving the industry with the exact same thing. I agree we don't have as many of those, but what I've actually seen with a lot of the younger people entering and, and we are willing to recruit some people who maybe aren't as experienced, but help them come up is they are coming out of financial planning programs. They're coming out of an advice driven versus maybe a product driven background. And if you can make the investment in bringing them up in an advice model, and no, it does take a little longer. If somebody's coming in and they're selling product, you can hit the ground selling product, but there is never a time without changing something that that person will then become an advice driven advisor.

We also just look at the younger people, and by younger I, I don't just mean out of college. There's an A request for a different type of compensation structure. I think they want more stability. They wanna have that ability to spend more time with someone and help cultivate a relationship over time. So while it is a challenge, we all know we would like a lot more people than there are.

I actually am really encouraged that if you're willing to change the paradigm of how you define that. You will find people. I've never been a big fan of going and trying to buy someone's assets and bring them in. 'cause you have a mercenary and that's okay. But if you're trying to build a sustainable business, a business full of, of mercenaries is ultimately not really going to help you grow and bring stability to your client base.

Phil: I gotcha. So I'm, I, I'm, I'm gonna ask a question that I think I know the answer to, and it, it really leads into a, a kind of a second overarching theme. But I can imagine some individuals hearing your. Your assessment and the fact that we maybe bring younger people in and we develop them a, a cynics mindset is very quickly gonna say, yeah, you're gonna train 'em, you're gonna develop 'em, and then they're gonna leave for a bigger pay package, they're going to leave for a different organization.

But you've been very focused on not just developing, but actually career pathing advisors. And it's not just about the first two years or three years of their career that you're focused on, you've actually taken, again, that long view approach. Can you unpack that a little bit for us?

Rebecca: Sure. So one of the things that we really focused on is rather than limiting our advisors on the types of clients they work with, based on what channel you're in or a UM, we've actually said for each advisor, if you pass the main requirements to work with a certain client segment, you have access to that segment.

And then if you would like to continue to grow, as long as you'll invest in your learning and we'll partner you, we will give you the training. You have to demonstrate you can do it. We'll let you continue to move up. So I think, yes, there is always a risk and. We train some younger people who do go other places, but that also is, I think, a unique thing that we're not trying to take someone two or three years in the industry and just sell products.

Like we want you to give advice. We're going to train you on planning, and we're going to keep that training up throughout your career. And I think they see the growth in it. They also see an opportunity where we are able to attract people. It's really uncommon to be able to move up tier with clients in a lot of firms without having to go from say, a retail channel to a private banking channel.

And because we don't channelize 'em that way, you actually see the opportunity to work with larger clients and more complex things. I think in ways that if you just jump firms, you may not like have that same opportunity.

Phil: You know, you made reference to this just a couple of moments ago. Your, your comment was, as long as they are qualified to work in the segment, you're not talking about a, a securities license.

You're not talking about necessarily a designation. Again, a, a very intentional, long-term approach that you've taken on this. Talk to us about some of your thoughts, some of your ideas that you've implemented that, you know, allow these individuals into these segments.

Rebecca: Yeah. So, uh, you know, I look at table stakes are are things like the CFP, I'm A CFP, myself. Table stakes are your securities licensing. They're required, but I don't view those as qualifications on their own. It's what you do with it. So we had different levels of planning and modules of planning that if someone started working with Phil Buchanan, Phil fits into a segment, we are going to say, not just can you prepare this plan, but.

Talk to me. How do you present it? What do you see? Case studies, how are you gonna be a holistic advisor to someone who is in an executive management position versus someone who's a business owner? And then we really do believe at some level. You cannot be everything to everyone, and that's why we have teams.

So we have teams with advanced planning specialists, with portfolio managers, with trust officers when it makes sense with private bankers, with advanced commercial bankers. So part of that as you move up is also learning how to remove yourself as an advisor from being the center of that advice to being a person who can manage relationships.

Credentialize your team. And know how to bring the right people in. So that's a big part of moving up, is giving people the opportunity. There is no downside to doing it, and it's also why we say if you, you bring the team, you work with the team, you can continue to progress. But if that's not something you can do and remove yourself out of the center, then again, this is not the place for you.

Phil: And so we would juxtapose that with an organization that, that is, I, I just call it very vertically integrated. They've got, you know, retail investment management services, and then they've got the private bank and they've got, you know, uber wealth and things like that, and never shall any of those teams crossover. As a matter of fact, in a lot of organizations, that's the, you know, that's the big challenge for the leaders is establishing rules of engagement, et cetera. In, in your model, you've got the opportunity to play in any of those spaces. As long as you meet those qualifications and you pass, it's almost like a critical defense of your thesis and skills. Right?

Rebecca: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, and that's the best thing I think. If you think about a client having worked in organizations that went sort of by business channel, you also saw where somebody was holding onto something that they really shouldn't, and that was not the best outcome for the client on the end, but you see why it happened and it happened within channels.

It's, they don't need to be in high net worth. This person doesn't need to be in ultra high net worth. So we wanted to remove that. It kind of goes back to if you do the right thing for the clients, you'll keep good clients and you will develop your people.

Phil: I gotcha. Well, let's, let's look at the, at the flip side of this, and, you know, you, you, you said it yourself.

You know, you can have the ideal model for where you as a leader want to go, but there are gonna be situations where perhaps, you know, a person's not right. Perhaps they've got an opportunity elsewhere. There feels like there is a heightened level of. Turnover that's occurring in wealth across, across the country, and no organization is immune from it.

Coming out of COVID, you know, a lot of that was driven by some individuals that took early retirement. We saw compensation models need to evolve at that point in time. What's your feel on, on what's happening right now and why does there, there, there seem to be this level of, of turnover or transition or, or what, what's happening from your view?

Rebecca: I mean, I, I think. We can just address the elephant in the room. There's a lot of money in play, particularly for an experienced advisor. I've seen, I've seen some offers that, you know, financially for our business would not make sense, and they, they have a lot of caveats to them. So when someone does get one of these, if they're willing to talk to us, we're always willing to go through and say, you know, here's, here's what it looks like.

Here's what we see. There's also a lot of demand. And we know that if we don't have enough people, the next way to try and pull people in is, is money. Wait. Mean? This whole supply, the whole supply and demand thing that we, about the supply and demand. Holy cow. So that, that really does work, huh? It it, it really does.

And particularly in a place where this is my book and I own it. One of the things though I'm really proud of is even as we've had people move. We really have not seen much business move. We have retained a tremendous amount of business because in our organization, the relationship is often with multiple people.

It is a belief in the organization itself. There are long-term clients, so that's been nice too, is if somebody wants to move on, I'm always the first person to say, I think you should go and do what's best for you, or what you perceive is best for you. But we still have that obligation to a client. To take care of them and deliver for them.

I also think if you really think about your compensation models, those who work in more of a commission based model are also tend to be a little bit more kind of me oriented. Those who are more willing to work in a salary and defined bonus type of model. I have found tend to be more team oriented. So the courage to look at how you're paying people and are you paying them to do the things you want them to do, but you're also attracting the people who want to work the way your organization wants.

And that's different for everyone. But I think that's, that's a big part of it. But I also think the turnover, while. Private equity money in the industry works its way out while the broker dealers are working their way out. I do think that's here to stay for a while. So that's just a game that we have to just stay invested in our people so that the pleasure of working here is enough to also make them a little more committed to staying with it.

Phil: All right, so. Other than compensation, because it, it, it sounds like from a, from a leadership perspective, you have, you have solved for the way that you want to operate and run businesses. You've solved that question. What are the other things that you're hearing from the men and women that you're talking to about recruiting?

Maybe it's a, a change of career. Maybe it's, you know, individuals from other organizations and they're in a model that's, that's just not right. What are the things that are driving the decision to. To change what they're doing. If it's not compensation.

Rebecca: A lot of times it's having access to a team of specialists.

So a lot of people that we've hired out of the RIA world, they tend to work pretty independently and they love the idea of having other experts around them, the resources. Another is within a financial services organization, you have a very rich client base. It is hard to go out on the street and build a client book.

So one of the things that's very appealing is while people who've been with certain RAs may have ownership, go down a level, and most of the people do not. So they're in a world where if they build a book, they need to go out and build it. They may or may not have the industry or social connections to do so.

And then even as they do, they don't have a portfolio manager, they don't have an advanced planner. Or if they do, it's a very much a centralized resource, not somebody there with, not somebody they work with every day. So I think that's been a big thing with attracting people is that kind of access and working, you know, getting to work in a team.

Phil: Got. I wanna throw a scenario out. We, we've put out a, a, a paper at the end of 2025, research paper I've been involved in over the last, I don't know, 18 months. And it focused on the fact that banks are in a very, very unique opportunity to capitalize more than I arguably a fair share. Of this great transition of wealth that's occurring.

And one of the things that I used was an actual fact pattern from a scenario I was closely aligned with where an individual had started with the, the business side of the bank, some 25 years ago, over a 25 year period of time, borrowed and repaid over $83 million in loans. Forget about the, you know, the depository relationships, the all of the FX they did because they had international overseas deals.

Yet when it came time to monetize the wealth, the wealth left the bank and went elsewhere. And it wasn't that somebody from Wealth had never gotten introduced, they had, but somehow, and, and I've, you can read the paper and, and, and go through that somehow this, this bank lost an opportunity to capture what turned out to be a couple hundred million dollars of wealth.

At the end of the day, we, we all know of situations like this, we've all seen cases like this and, you know, in, in a lot of wealth shops we're, we're so focused on going out and finding opportunities, but, you know, you're, you're talking about that unique advantage that, that banks have. What, what do the banking institutions in this country need to do to play both offense and defense in a situation like I just described?

How do we, everybody's got a process. I, I, I hear from leaders also. Well, we've got a process for that, and when it works, it works beautifully. But the caveat is always when it works. So what do we in, in, in the banking institutions that we offer, the, the, the commercial and business making, we offer the wealth?

What do we need to be doing to ensure that this is a rare occurrence and not a common occurrence?

Rebecca: Yeah, I have a couple of thoughts. You know, we, I wish we were perfect. We see these two and it, it pains us, it pains us when we made that first loan and helps someone grow a business and then the relationship ends when it really should just be the next phase of it.

That, that is painful for all of us. Couple of things, A big one that I see is a commercial banker holding on to the personal relationship. Or a commercial banker, primarily having a relationship with like A CFO or a treasurer and not the owner. So one thing is if you are fortunate enough to have a private banking team, you need people on your private banking team who are relationship cultivators.

This person may or may not be the really big client now, but that's the first place. And then the second thing is that's where you take your planner. You have somebody with a $200 million business. Years in advance, you can start talking to them about planning and you can engage. What I often hear is, well, they met wealth, but they met wealth.

To go and say, here's what we do in asset management. Apparently you don't have any assets exactly what happened, manage so i'll, you know, I'll follow up later. And the, and the follow up doesn't happen. But there was no value creation. So using all of the tools you have along the way, the other one that pains me.

Did you ever have a risk management conversation? Did you talk about their insurance and their lack of liquidity? There are so many ways to do it, but because our industry is so a UM focused, we have a meeting we talk about, they don't have anything to invest. We move on may or may not meet our private bank criteria.

We move on and the relationship isn't formed and then we rush back in. But guess what? That business was probably maybe sold by your bank, probably not. And they've already been in conversations with three or four other providers.

Phil: Sure, sure. Absolutely, absolutely. You just summarized the case perfectly because you know that, that, that is what you said should have happened and di and didn't, didn't happen should have, and what you said likely happened. Certainly did. So it's, to me, I think this is. It, it's a, it, it's a rally cry that I'm really pushing to, to, to you, to your contemporaries, other organizations to, to put a, a bright light on, because I think there's, there's a huge opportunity had that had that business maker at inception say, of course we're gonna, we're gonna help you with the financing, but.

The thing I want you to understand is a relationship with this organization doesn't begin and end with a business loan. That that begins a relationship that will be generationally for your family. You know, creating that imagery early on, you know, that, uh, that can inspire. Actions and willingness on behalf of business owners to, to take meetings and to have those planning conversations.

Yeah. Because they got the vision of it early on. So, kind of a, kind of an interesting deal. We'll talk more about that at some later date. So let me, let me, let me pose this to you. You, you are going to, you are gonna lose, you know, top advisors, you know, they're gonna retire, they're gonna die, they're gonna, you know, take it.

They wanna go start their own business. Okay. That's great. Yep. Mentally, as a leader, uh, you know, you don't. And, and, uh, again, to put, put a very blunt point on it. You don't worry about the people, you don't mind losing, but when you lose somebody that, that you're, you're, you're close to, that you've developed, that you, i i is really doing great things that can, it's a bummer that, that, that can put you in, in kind of a, a detached mindset.

How do you manage that? How do you, how do you encourage your next tier of leaders to, to think through that and, and, and what do you communicate to the broader team when those types of things happen?

Rebecca: And I think at, at the end of the day, for most of us, we are employees. We work here, we are leaders. We take it very seriously.

We have a major investment in the organization, but this is also a job and everybody has different reasons. For why they work, where they do, why they stay, why they go. And I think if you lose someone that you hate to lose, I always hope it's because they have a better opportunity for themselves. And that may not mean a bigger career opportunity.

It might mean a better lifestyle opportunity, something they've been passionate about and they want to pursue. So I think the key is, is to really dig in, understand why. Be positive, be supportive. I think the worst thing I see an organization do is the minute someone leaves kind of pushing 'em off to the side.

Like we now, if you go to a competitor and you're calling on my clients, we're probably not going to be in a good place. But if you go and you leave with integrity, we should lead with integrity. And I would want every person to know, I'd rather you talk to me about things you are thinking about. I'm always going to encourage you to do the thing that is best for you, and I hope for a long time the best thing for you aligns with the best thing for us.

But when that changes, that's okay. This is a very small industry. You know, the people that worked with me here, several of them worked with me before and you know, I'd hope they would work with me again.

Phil: You know, you, you, your comments right there remind me a lot of Georgia Head football coach Kirby Smart's attitude about his, his assistant coaches, and he said, you know, I hope, I hope all of these, and they're, they're all men.

He said, I hope all these guys wind up as head coaches and the right. Head coaching position. He said, you know, we have a lot of conversations about what's right and sometimes a lateral move or even a a, a move in a different direction will give them some skill sets. He said, I'm, of course I'm going to encourage them to do that because if I develop them in the right way.

It's gonna draw other people to us. And I, you know, I think that is, that is how we all should be thinking about business. But you know, you, you, we all have quarterly numbers or annual numbers that we're going forward sometimes that can, that can really kind of stress the system. So I appreciate your, your perspectives on that and your insight.

Let me ask you, this question does, and I made reference to it earlier, you're, you're a very. Competitive person. You're a runner, you're a skier, you're a ice climber. You do a lot of things that challenge you physically, mentally, emotionally, and the like. Has that contributed to you in business and if so, can you give an example of how

Rebecca: Yeah, I mean, I think it has, and I think it's really twofold.

We can all get very tied up in what we do every day, and for me, sometimes that physical challenge and the activities I like are challenging. They take me outside where your only focus can be on keeping yourself safe, on moving through, on getting something done. And I do think it makes me better. You also learn, cannot panic, no matter what happens.

The worst thing that happens in a bad situation is panic. And I think as a leader, when things happen, people look to you to say, are we okay? And the ability to, you can panic a little on the inside, but. The ability not to panic and the ability to really, truly be able to steal yourself and say, right new direction.

And we need, we need to go. You know, ed Sters, his famous quote was, the art of mountaineering is knowing when to go, knowing when to hold, and knowing when to retreat. And I think that's kind of the art of business, but when you learn to do it physically, I think it makes it a lot easier than to also learn to do it mentally.

Phil: Well, when you're hundreds of feet up in the air and every decision, it, it might not be life threatening, but it is potentially a life altering, that certainly has to give you some perspective Absolutely. As to how to communicate with the, the ministerial things that can be the, the wealth management world.

So I'm gonna, the penultimate question and then we'll get to our, our final question here is, 20 years from now and a new cropping of wealth leaders flies to your island somewhere in the South Pacific where you, you have established your headquarters. They go to the mountaintop there and they say, Rebecca, what is, what is one thing, what is one piece of wisdom you would offer us if that happened today?

What's that? What's that one thing that you would challenge everybody in this industry from a piece of wisdom that you've gleaned, that you try to live by?

Rebecca: I think the world is changing fast. We see ai, you know, we saw robo come in, we see things that come in and the message is always, this is going to replace you.

And I would just encourage everyone, embrace the tools, embrace them, learn how to use them, use them to make yourself better. And then the way to remain relevant is what none of those things can do is empathetically sit with someone. Who has lost a spouse, who has had a job change, who has even sometimes the selling of a business can be traumatic.

Yeah. Who has had an exciting event in their life. You know, if you're saying I'm sorry or congratulations, nothing, there's no tool or no technology that can replace this personal side. So cultivate your emotional intelligence and embrace all of the things that are coming. They won't make you irrelevant.

They will make you more relevant and more efficient, and they will make you better.

Phil: Absolutely worst live by. I love that. So, final question. It's the same question we ask all of our guests on the Cannon curve, so I know that you know that it's coming, but you have a unique opportunity. You get to go back and have a conversation with 22-year-old.

Rebecca, 22-year-old who is just starting out her career, finishing up college, looking at opportunities, the the world is your oyster. If you had that opportunity to go back and provide a little bit of coaching, a little bit of counseling, something that you would offer to her, what? What's that one piece of advice?

Rebecca: I think the biggest thing is it's a marathon and not a sprint. 'cause I came out sprinting and I kept sprinting for a long time, and then I hit a point after about 10 years of that where I asked myself. Do I even want to do this? Like, is this, is this a life for me? Is this what I want? And I would've really, if I hadn't been able to step back, slow down and say, let's go to marathon pace because you cannot sprint through the next 30 years.

I ran the risk of actually removing myself from a profession that I love, Uhhuh there. This is a, this is a noble profession. I'm, and I don't say that lightly. Yeah. So I'd go back and tell myself. Get your marathon training on your marathon shoes. Keep a pace at a good pace. I like to win, but you cannot sprint forever.

Phil: Yeah. Well, well said. Rebecca Robinson, EVP, and head of Wealth for Zions. You, you set a very high benchmark of thought leadership for the industry. I, I, I, I wanna say on behalf of your contemporaries, who always clamor to hear you anytime you are, uh. Speaking at any industry event, your your peer round tables, they always lean in when it's Rebecca's turn to make a comment.

And I think our listeners now understand much more clearly why that's the case. So thank you for everything you do.

Rebecca: Thank you so much, Phil, and thank you for having me.

Phil: Absolutely. The Cannon curve is the production of Cannon Financial Institute. Executive producer of the Cannon Curve is Sarah Jones. Editing and mixing is done by Danny Brunner.

Until next month, I'm Phil Buchanan thanking each of you for staying ahead of the curve.

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