Episode 101 - Sarah McKinney

In this episode, Phil is joined by Sarah McKinney, CEO of the Athens Community Foundation, who shares her journey into philanthropy and her philosophy on intentional giving. McKinney emphasizes that effective philanthropy requires asking the right questions, building genuine relationships, and creating flexible legacies that reflect family values while avoiding overly prescriptive designations. She illustrates how community foundations serve as vital connectors between donors, advisors, and nonprofits, helping transform charitable giving into meaningful impact through stories like establishing a nursing scholarship in memory of a client's daughter. Listen to discover how wealth advisors can elevate client relationships across generations by facilitating thoughtful conversations about philanthropy that align with deeper values and create lasting legacies.

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Transcript 

Well, hello, Cannon Nation. It is Phil here with the Cannon Curve for February 2025. You know, in the world of wealth advisory, there's so many disparate components that have to come together. There's, of course, investment management. There's risk management. There's estate planning. Often there's the use of banking and credit.

But one piece that advisors and their clients sometimes allow to play, I guess, second fiddle, is the area of intentional philanthropic plan. Today, my guest is Sarah McKinney. She is the CEO of the Athens Community Foundation. And in that role, obviously has a lot to say and do about the world of philanthropy.

But just as important, perhaps even more important, is Sarah's focus on the broader community of practice. helping advisors, helping clients, helping practitioners to think through alternatives to supporting various philanthropic causes so that their philanthropic gifts are very intentional and have longterm meaning.

Sarah McKinney, welcome to The Cannon Curve. Thanks for having me, Phil. So, Sarah, um, tell us a little bit about you. How in the world, uh, did you wind up in the chair of CEO of the Athens Community Foundation? As a, as a little girl, you grew up with aspirations to lead a, a large philanthropic endeavor.

What's the, what's the background? What's the story? You know, nobody ever raises their hand when they're a kid and says, I'm going to grow up and be a fundraiser, Phil. It just doesn't happen. But you know, throughout my career, I've really fallen in love with nonprofit business, administration, fund development, the finances and accounting of nonprofits.

And I got my start many years ago. Very simply put, when I was helping my grandfather in a nursing home in DeKalb County, thought I wanted to be a teacher and quickly learned actually wanted to become a social worker. And from there, 25 plus years later, I love being in nonprofit business world. You know, it's it is interesting.

The story of your grandfather and you were kind to share that in our pre meetings. We all have been influenced by certain events, certain people in our life that because of that encounter perhaps caused us to pivot. As I think Robert Frost once said, talking about two roads diverging, it makes all the difference.

And for you, that experience with your grandfather led you on very, very interesting path. As you look back on it, that being the catalyst, what are Two or three other kind of significant events along your journey of philanthropy and you refer to it as social work. I'll call it the greater good. What have been some interesting experiences that you've had that have just reaffirmed that you were on the right path?

Great question and two immediately popped to mind. Two really revolves around the delivery of a service. And the second revolves around what great mentorship looks like. And I don't care who we are, where we are, what our business is, um, where we live, we can all be great mentors. The first and greatest lesson I ever had in philanthropy, and I'll make this one really quick, but it's important.

I ran a Meals on Wheels program in my early twenties and had this client in her mid fifties. She had rheumatoid arthritis, just crippled fingers and toes. Her mom was bed bound with dementia and she was just one of the kindest people. And I showed up every week, excited to see her. I was pregnant with our second child.

She loved that. And when I came back from maternity leave, I'm speeding this story up. When I came back from maternity leave, this. woman, disabled woman on Meals on Wheels, very fixed income. I think she made 585 a month and put a 10 bill and a dollar store congratulations card for me. And that was probably the earliest lesson in philanthropy is that regardless of our wealth, we all can be great givers.

Um, and I will, I will always remember what it was like to be on the receiving end of generosity. The second story, Phil, mid twenties, same thing, running our meals on meals program in a local icon at the time, Mr. Ed Benson, he ran Benson's bakery and several of the hotels here in Athens. Picked me off. He was a meals on meals volunteer.

Picked me off one day when he came back from his meal route and said, I'd like to work with you. I think you have a lot of potential in business. And I think you and I should get together at least once a month. We'll study together. We'll learn together and we'll share together. And from there, a very long term mentorship relationship was birthed between Ed and I, and that, that incredible icon of a businessman poured into a young social worker.

And hands down a good chunk of who I am today is because he took the time to shape me and listen to me. You realize you not only got a master's in business from Ed Benson, but you got a PhD in, in how to live life to the fullest. I mean, what a, uh, what a fantastic Testament that Ed saw in you, what others obviously, uh, see in you.

And I mean, that is, you said it right. One of the, one of Athens greatest, uh, It's an icon. So that is fantastic. So today, all of this has led you to running the Athens Community Foundation. First off, the advisors that listen to this, you know, they hear the term Community Foundation, and it will be different things to different people based upon where they are around the country, the roles and responsibilities they have.

How do you define the role of a community foundation? What's its purpose? What's its mission? Talk to us a little bit about that. Sure. I think no matter where you live in the United States or even around the world, community foundations are present in all of our communities. When they do a really great job, Phil, I say they do one thing.

They grow giving for the community that they all love. And if you were to break that down a little bit more, I'd ask your listeners to picture a seesaw. In the middle of that seesaw is the institution that is a community foundation. On one side of the seesaw is asset development. How are we growing assets for our community partnering with Individuals, businesses, corporations to, to grow their giving.

And the other side of that seesaw is community leadership, which is really our value proposition. When the Buchanan family opens a donor advice fund at our community foundation and trust us, what's that value proposition within our community leadership? What are we doing as a result of the trust that the Buchanan family has given to us?

Through their funds. And so I'm always balancing assets and community action to make a really great community foundation And that's probably my greatest 101 that I could have for this Monday Got you. All right. Well that that gives us something to hang some questions around so one of the things that you mentioned right there is you're you're right at the the epicenter of of the variety of of relationships that will exist in a community that go in and to support various causes, you know, there are a lot of people that think sometimes that the fundraising is the hardest part, but that's not always true, right?

This is the easiest part. If you're a great fundraiser, uh, and I mean, I think you can take out the word fundraiser and put in business development. I don't see them or sales. They're all very similar in my very basic opinion, but I think when you do sales, business development, fund development, really, really well, you understand this quote, relationships are primary.

All else is derivative. If you make, Forge, steward, retain, rinse and repeat on extraordinary relationships that are not just yours, but are your organization's or your business's, um, relationships. You will grow in your development of any kind of business and particularly in fundraising. And the, and the final piece of fundraising, and if, you know, let's liken it to selling a car.

I love to buy my car at Hayward Island Toyota. They've got a great culture, great service. I love the owners. I love the company, everybody I interact with. If I want to sell a great fundraising tool at the Community Foundation, I've got to make sure that you are stewarded well. We have a great culture at our organization.

And finally, you understand the impact of the gift that you may have made to our community. Impact is the product here. There are so many nuggets in that little stream of consciousness that you just threw out right there. That is fantastic. I'm going to come back and we're going to highlight some of those at the end.

But let's, uh, let's dig a little bit into the inner workings of Community Foundation. So if, if fundraising is the fun part, the easy part, the, the, the part that, you know, is, is enjoyable. What's the, what's the work side of a community foundation? Where, where do the real challenges lie? Sure. The work side, I would make the challenges, and I don't see challenges as a bad thing, so I just want to frame that.

I think, I mean, you know, it's kind of cheesy to say, but challenges are opportunities. I don't see challenges as a bad thing. One, I think one of the greatest challenges we have is empowering a board of directors. Because we're a non profit at a community foundation. We're governed by a board of directors Empowering educating and connecting to a board such that they're raging ambassadors of your brand That's a challenge because it takes time.

It takes intentionality. It takes 101 But when I tell you that if you get your board members on fire about your work They will be your best brand ambassador challenge. Number two is probably time so back to business development fund development How I spend my time will directly correlate to what I see as priorities for the Community Foundation.

And back to that seesaw, I've got to adequately spend my time developing assets as much as I spend my time developing community leadership activities. We have no community leadership at the Community Foundation if we don't have assets. And, you know, eight years ago we were 5. 9 million. Today we are 38 million in assets.

75 funds to 300 funds. The challenge there becomes how do you steward relationships that are not just your own but your organization. Bring your your co workers along in that journey. Make sure they have metrics for their work. Every single thing that we do at our community foundation is measurable. How many clients am I in front of?

How many times am I making and ask who am I prospecting business from and over on the community leadership side, where am I showing up in community that doesn't look like me sound like me. I'm not familiar with who am I meeting all metric all measurable all have outcomes of positive impact in our community.

But you can't just say you're going to do good. You've got to measure it. You know, I hope that the advisors that are listening to this see the parallels between the way that you are running your business and the way that they should be running their business. Because you were right in one of your early assessments that business development, fundraising, you know, it, it, It does parallel each other and the things that are critical is you have to be out amongst the community of practice and you have to be focusing on building that brand.

I didn't want to, we want to tackle that just a little bit more in a few moments. You know, when we were chatting in our, our pre call, you gave some examples of how. You interact with the broader community of practice. And I think, as I shared with you then, that is, that is one of the things that sets people apart is when they, they're interested in helping people to get to the right spot, even if that spot is not their own.

They're, they're focused on helping people make good decisions, even if that decision doesn't ultimately involve them. And for a lot of advisors, they are in markets where the community foundation is not as collaborative. The leaders of those groups aren't as collaborative as you certainly are. Talk to us a little bit about what you see as the importance about having fundamental good working relationships with the legal community, the accounting community, the financial advisory community, because at the end of the day, You're all really working and calling on and developing relationships with very similar people, right?

That's absolutely correct. And Phil, to your, kind of to the genesis of those questions and comments, a community foundation does a really good job if they, one, are making and forging relationships with those advisor communities. Um, we have four major customers at the community foundation, existing fund holders, prospective fund holders, non profits, and professional advisors.

I say this all the time and I mean it. Whether a dollar touches the door of the community foundation or not, I believe we are a portal and an entry place to helping professional advisors feel empowered to have charitable conversations with their clients. So much money is given out from individuals in this country every single year.

And so often the first point of entry and the first point of contact in that conversation is the financial advisor or the CPA or the estate planning attorney asking their clients where their charitable inclinations lie. And I want to see every professional advisor in our community feel great about asking the right questions regarding philanthropy.

Feel great knowing that the Community Foundation can be a partner in that process. We are not the end all be all, nor should we ever think that. And I wanted professional advisors to know that when they do a great job, if they can help their clients, their customers, feel great about their giving, it will only enhance their brand as that client's advisor.

Uh, Phil, if you sit down with me and help me be my very best giver, I'm going to think that much more about the advisor relationship that I have with you because you took that plus plus time in your practice to wrap around my family giving. So it's a, you know, it's a, I don't want to go too long winded into this, but the bottom line is a great community foundation will be open.

To sharing with any professional advisor and sure I want to raise assets and I want to earn your business But I mean it if a dollar never touches our door We're going to answer that call answer that email and help your advisor super about having a conversation with their clients It's why we have a blog on our website filled with information tools worksheets on how you can have a conversation Got it.

So, you know, you, you, you fit on something a couple of times and I, I may have kicked off a little bit with this, the, the, the theme of intentionality. Unfortunately, in a lot of instances, and I've, I've, I've seen this personally and, and working with affluent, wealthy individuals, they will get near the end of the year and a professional, a CPA, perhaps financial advisor, uh, will say, Hey, you're going to have this, this extraordinary, you know, income event this year.

You want to think about, you know, making a contribution to the charity of your choice. And, and, and thus begins. and often ends the advice that that person is is offering to the client. Now, if the client has a history and has, you know, taking steps to do very intentional things in the past and, you know, perhaps they go down the right path.

But unfortunately, in a lot of instances, it just begins a pattern of what I refer to as checkbook philanthropy. If somebody comes and calls and it sounds like a, you know, worthwhile event, you write him a check and you write another check and you write another check. And most advisors are aware that the checkbook philanthropy is a way to support philanthropic causes.

There are some other tax advantage ways that they can do it. We can get into that on another podcast at some point down the line. But, how, how specifically can a professional like you that does this every single day, what are, what are ways that you help advisors, help clients be more intentional? I do. I have some super examples.

Uh, just before I share a quick story on that, I think one of the greatest challenges of that year end giving is giving becomes more reactionary. I mean, we all know the blur of Thanksgiving to New Year. And so I'd love to help people think about how they make giving more proactive, how you think about who you want to give to when.

So as a single bit of advice that most everybody listening to this podcast will know that donor advice tool is a super option, whether it's at a community foundation and a private labeled product, or with your own firm, that donor advice fund is a great place to temporarily keyword. Some of the biggest pushback on donor advised funds is people open them, they put money in there and then they don't use them.

I like to see donor advised funds as a tool for year end, get the dollars where you need them to go, get the charitable deduction, but then use that tool proactively throughout the next year to use the funds and grant from your donor advised fund. At Community Foundations, we have a host of other products, like designated funds, uh, scholarships.

And one of my very favorite year end stories comes from Amy Parrish, an advisor with Highland Trust Partners here in Athens, Georgia. She was working with a customer and his son, the customer had a larger qualified charitable distribution from their IRA for the year. And they really just did not have the relationships with any non profits in our community that, made them feel comfortable about this larger QCD.

So she brought us in and I, you know, gave the pitch. It doesn't matter if a dollar ever hits our door, we're going to help you find the best nonprofits. But in asking the right questions, key word, Phil, we got to ask the right questions of our client. I learned that this customer had a late daughter who was an aspiring nurse.

And that meant a lot to the family. And so I worked with this family to establish a scholarship fund for Athens Tech named for his late daughter. And that transformative moment took place because we asked the right questions. We got the table with the client and we got the opportunity to dig into what was charitably important.

And today a permanent scholarship is forever named for his child. Helping future nursing students at a local trade school here in our community. And I just think that's a major win. We were invited, we listened, we asked the right questions. And again, no matter if that's a community foundation or not, sometimes those few extra questions and few extra minutes will get at the heart of what your client really, really wants.

You know, I'm, I'm sitting here reflecting that one of the most important things that you can do every day is, is learn, learn something, you know, even if it's something small and what you're talking about right there is, you know, advisors have access to men and women like you in community foundations, but it may be inside their own organizations.

Many of the listeners to our calls, they've got internal philanthropic specialists that do nothing all day long, but, you know, help. Advise clients on these types of challenges and these types of issues. And sometimes we get so busy that we, we forget to learn. And what, what a great opportunity to, to, to learn the right questions, to, to hear the way someone in your chair may phrase the conversation that, that gives me the tools to be able to go into, to potentially be even that more, that much more impactful with, with other clients in the future.

So I, I. I really do hope that our listeners think through that. Let me ask you this one question that, that I, I remember posing one time. And, and it wasn't my question. I had heard it from, from another advisor, but that really got. a conversation going with a, uh, a group of matriarchs. It was at a, at a conference and I was, I was facilitating a session, but I posed the question.

I said, you know, 50 years from now, the level of wealth that, that your families have created is still going to have meaning in some way, shape, or form. Within your family and within the broader community and even even potentially beyond that. Help me understand other than the financial legacy, you know, what are the things that that you really Want to memorialize or you really want people to to remember and be impacted by?

I asked that question and for the next 45 minutes I don't think I said another word and there were there were there were five ladies there and It went back and forth and it went back and forth. And, you know, it was it was very interesting. It wasn't that they were, you know, wishing that their, you know, grandchildren, great grandchildren, great great grandchildren would be, you know, independent.

It was It was more that they would recognize the role of God to make the world a better place, to make the communities a better place to live in, to support those that, you know, have been a bit less fortunate perhaps. And it was, it was a fantastic conversation. And, you know, after literally, 45 minutes of that, I, I, I asked the final question.

I said, will you commit to going home tonight, this weekend, when you get back home and ensure that your hopes, your wishes, your dreams that you've just talked about are reflected in documents that will cause that vision that you've just expressed to, to become a reality. That's right. You could have, you could have heard a pin drop because those, those five individuals were looking at each other and, and they realized that the emotional connection that they all felt to this, this mission probably wasn't reflected in, you know, So what do clients need to do to ensure that they don't just support causes important causes like Athens Community Foundation, etc.

But they, they really need to be intentional with this long term legacy, and, and what that legacy can be I think about that. gentlemen supporting the nursing scholarship. And, you know, to your point, that's gonna that's gonna be here a long time, right? That's right. What? What? What? What do people need to be doing?

What do advisors need to be doing to really help people think through this? That's a great question. And, you know, think about how fast the world is moving, particularly in the last five or six years. I think one of the key things we can do with philanthropy is, and this is going to be hard for some to hear, but it's be as less prescriptive as possible.

So over designating things, over, so you may have a mission and a vision for what you want your legacy to look like. One of my favorite stories was a scholarship. left in an estate back in the earlier 1900s, and it was to help a farm boy go to camp during the months of September. Think about 2025. That scholarship no longer is applicable, so I think that's what I mean about being less prescriptive as possible.

The first thing we've got to do is establish trust. Where it is we want to leave a legacy. Where do we want to leave a gift? It can be as big and as bold as Mr. Benson's gift to the Terry College of Business here at UGA for which Benson's Hall is named after. It could be, um, as simple as starting a fund at a community foundation through your estate plan to make sure that Buchanan's family's interest in puppies and kittens lives on.

There's a ton of flexibility in philanthropy, but I think where philanthropy often goes awry is it's too prescriptive. It doesn't want to give to operating cost. It gets so specific that it's almost no longer applicable in the legacy, but oftentimes the, the, the internal workings of that are what are your family's values?

And where do you see those values reflected in the relationships that you have in community and the causes that you care about? And how can you ensure that if you wish for your family's name to be known or you wish for the causes to be perpetually supported, you understand how your values undergirded the final gift of legacy making there.

And that takes a lot of work. I mean, none of this is just do it. Then there's second and third generation conversations. Do you want family to be involved in legacy gifting on your behalf? What do the family values there look like? I mean, this is so multi layered and so complicated because it's relational.

And if we do a good job in relationships, those are never easy. Those are never just do it. They take time intentionality and work, but I think helping clients achieve those legacies in whatever ways they take shape will only make the advisor even more of the hero. in the financial advisor room to their customers.

Well, you absolutely nailed it right there. And I regrettably, I think there are times that advisors see it being too complicated and thus take a step back and seek to fulfill just what the client has asked of them, as opposed to really playing the role of family advocate, which. By the way, when, when you play that role as that trusted thought partner, as the family advocate, you retain relationships and not days, weeks, months, and years, but you do it for decades and generations, you know, the financial advisory community has a, has a challenge.

And the challenge is that a lot of clients ultimately leave when the senior generation passes away, or when the first of the senior generation passes away, but if you're involved at this level, if you are. If you're really working with multi generations of the family, it's amazing what can happen. Oh, it's so significant and it will not take away from what you do.

It will only add to what you do. And it, and I think for the right people doing it for the right reasons will add to their own career satisfaction when you get to see legacies made, not just first, but second and subsequent generations. It's really powerful work. And oftentimes these legacies don't have to be, you know, multiple millions of dollars.

They can be simple gifts that make a huge impact on a local cause or even on an international cause, but leveraged the interest, the values, and the wants of that family appropriately. That's, that is fantastic. Well, Sarah, we, uh, we always ask a final question of our guests on The Cannon Curve. I'm really, really interested in what your answer to this will be, just given the nature of all the things that have impacted your life, but it is this.

If you could go back and have a coaching conversation, a counseling conversation of sorts with a 22 year old version of Sarah McKinney, what advice, what counsel would you offer that young lady? You know, Sarah started, you know, 22 year old Sarah was just starting to use the internet, so there's lots of probably decorum and social things, but those are the things that also make us who we are and whole today.

So, you know, the professional answer would be to have the confidence to hold the tables, to listen the hardest, to lean in the longest, and to be sure that whatever you're doing has an innate passion, because if you are not on fire about what you're doing, you're not going to grow your business accordingly.

And I think that's where I've spent the last eight years, really. pumped about a summary of experiences that have poured in. But, you know, I think a lot of us would say we wouldn't have done that or we would have turned back the clock on that. But I think we can also agree that the sum of those highs and the lows make us who we are today.

I'm kind of thankful. The good Lord let me be a hot mess. A lot of times, especially at 22, because I think I'm a little bit better today. And I wonder what 75 year old Sarah will answer about 45 year old Sarah. Well, I look forward to having you back on the curb in 30 years to discuss that. So, uh, so there you have it.

So Sarah will put links in the show notes to Athens Community Foundation to make sure that individuals that want to learn more can do so and get access to your blog. I want to, I want to close with a couple of things that are apropos, whether it's philanthropy or just, you know, the business of, of all things in general.

Here, here are some things that I heard you say today. Relationships are primary. Everything else is secondary. That is absolutely true. Spend your time with the relationships. Culture, culture, culture. If you get the culture right, people will gravitate to you. Positive mental attitude and then this final deal on brand ambassadors.

And I would, I would challenge all the advisors out there to really pose that question. Who are your brand ambassadors? Who are the people that advocate for you that represent the gravitas and the, the, the culture and the relationships you want to develop? This has been a fantastic podcast. Not again, just about philanthropy, but just some, some great life lessons.

Thank you for being part of the Cannon Curve. Thank you, Phil. Thank you, Cannon. Have a great day. The Cannon Curve is the production of Cannon Financial Institute. Executive producer of the Cannon Curve is Sarah Jones. Managing producer is McCall Chamberlain. Editing and mixing is done by Danny Brunner. On behalf of all the faculty and staff of Cannon Financial Institute, this is Phil Buchanan thanking you for staying ahead of the curve.