Cannon Connect - Guest Ira Kamerman

In this Cannon Connect episode, Phil explores how exceptional talent often comes from unexpected places. He speaks with Ira Kamerman of Allen Trust Company, who was recruited out of retail, not because of sales skills, but because he demonstrated ownership, integrity, and a genuine commitment to doing the right thing for a customer.

Now building a career in the trust industry, Ira reflects on how relationships, service, and care for clients are just as important as technical expertise. The conversation challenges traditional recruiting assumptions, pushes back on generational stereotypes, and offers a compelling reminder to leaders: pay attention to how people serve, because your next great hire might already be right in front of you.

Resources:

Phil Buchanan on LinkedIn

Ira Kamerman on LinkedIn

Transcript

Well greeting Cannon Nation, it is Phil Buchanan here with another edition of Cannon Connects. One of the big themes that the industry broadly has been focused on. Uh, for some time is not only talent acquisition, but talent development, uh, talent retention. Uh, when you're in the service business, human capital is your most valuable asset.

Uh, finding the right individuals to be a part of your organization and empowering them with the knowledge and the skill sets to be impactful with your clients, uh, obviously is the ultimate goal. Uh, but where. Do we recruit? Uh, where do we find the natural talent? Um, the answer, uh, from today's guest might actually surprise you a little bit.

Uh, there are, uh, several, and I, I hate to name names because I always leave someone out, but there's several individuals in the industry that I've always been impressed with their ability. To find talent in unique places. I think of, uh, Pepe Presley, uh, the chairman of, uh, of Cumberland Trust in Nashville, Tennessee.

Uh, I think of Miles Milton, uh, director of Wealth for Hancock Whitney, uh, in the, in the deep south. I think also. Uh, of Stewart and Sarah Allen at Allen Trust Company in the Pacific Northwest. These are men and women that have always, uh, been, uh, natural recruiters of talent wherever they find it. Uh, and today's guest, uh, is just such an individual.

And so today, uh, I'm joined by Ira Kamerman. Ira is an associate, uh, a relatively new associate, uh, with Allen Trust Company again, uh, in the Pacific Northwest. Uh, he was a find of, uh, Stewart and Sarah Allen, uh, at a very unconventional place. Uh, but since joining, uh, Allen Trust Company has. Uh, pursued, uh, his knowledge through, uh, the Cannon Trust Schools.

A shameless plug right there, Ira. Uh, and actually that's how, uh, how you and I came to meet. Is it not? That's absolutely right, Phil. Yep. Met you at, uh, Cannon over at Hilton Head. That, that's exactly right. And so, um, Ira, you and I got into a conversation and, uh, we unpacked a, a very, very interesting background.

What struck me, uh, first with you, uh, was an unbridled passion for learning. Uh, that was, that was very evident And, uh. Then when I did my due diligence and research, I got the rest of the story. And, uh, that's, that's what we're gonna share a little bit with listeners today. And I, I would challenge listeners to, to think about Ira’s story, uh, and to really examine the, the, the pathways that lead the right people into our organization.

So, um, Ira, first off. Give us just, uh, a, a smidgen of your background. Uh, I think you, uh, are native to Oregon. Uh, tell us a little bit about, uh, just the basics of who you are. Sure, sure. Thanks for asking Phil. So, yep, that's right. I was born at OHSU, you know, downtown Portland, Oregon, uh, 1995. Since then, I've been around in Oregon, uh, grew up in Eagle Creek over down by, uh, San, or up by Sandy, Oregon on the way to Mount Hood.

Uh, spent a lot of my younger life, uh, roaming around the outdoors. I was homeschooled, so I went to high school, went to a small charter academy over in Oregon City. Uh, from there I started working. Uh, first couple jobs were really kind of sales oriented. Uh, worked in a shoe store, then worked over at, uh, at a mattress store.

And I was pretty fortunate to find a steward, uh, or I should say I was fortunate that Sarah and Stuart Allen found me. Well, they, they, they certainly did. And they, uh, they highlight you as a great example of, uh, finding again, the right kind of people, uh, wherever they are and, uh, and meeting them where they are.

So you, you mentioned that, uh, you had some experience on the, on the sales side. You, you strike me as a naturally outgoing, gregarious kind of person. Has this been your, your profile your entire life? Well, maybe at least I'm able to present it that way. I, I think I, I think so. Yeah. I think so. Okay. So, um, take us back to the story and I'm, I'm gonna preface it this way.

Uh, and, and Sarah, uh, shared it this way. Uh, she and uh, Stewart were in the market for a new mattress and they wandered into a mattress store. And, uh, I'm going to assume you were next man up. So tell us, uh, tell us how you came to meet the two of them. Yeah, I think it was really just some absolutely good fortune, uh, right place, right time, doing the right things.

You know, I, uh, like I said, I met Sarah and Stewart at the mattress store, and you're right, there's an up system. You know, it could have been me, it could have been a colleague, and I, I was the one who got to work with them. Okay. And just by going about, you know, my, what I, what I consider my normal routine, you know, helping 'em out, answering questions, figuring out, and like I mentioned a minute ago, doing the right thing.

Um, it wasn't really just selling a mattress, uh, that, that impressed him. I don't think it was kind of what happened after the, the sale of the mattress. Some issues. Our first kind. First kind of direction is well go ahead and call our customer service. Uh, they'll be able to help you with the service side of things and, uh, well, you know, let me know, let me know if it doesn't work out.

Well, Stewart, he brought it to my attention, a really good point when he's having issues with his mattress. It's not from nine to five in the middle of the weekday. It's, you know, 9:00 PM and onward when, uh, well, surprise, surprise, can't get ahold of anyone there at the, at the customer service. And well, as, as you may know, Stewart's a busy guy.

He doesn't really have all the time just to wait around and sit on the hold and go under the bed and unplug the mattress and do all these things that I personally. I agree with it shouldn't necessarily be on the customer, on the client to be doing that troubleshooting when they spend a good amount of money on a bed.

It, it should, it should work. And if it doesn't, I think that you should take some responsibility and some ownership and make sure it does. Make sure it does work. So with that, I kind of did, the only thing I knew to do, I offered myself up, well, I'm not on the service team, I'm not on the home delivery team, but I can come out to your, uh, to your house and I can take a look.

I can see what I can figure out myself. And I think that's what really impressed them and, and. What's funny about what that to me is, you know, I mentioned a minute ago doing the right thing in the right place at the right time. I always did that kind of thing, you know, if there was a problem with one of my clients, I would drew my best to, to help and to put myself out there as, as you know, first stop a one stop shop, you know?

But. It's the right place, it's the right time. When I got to work with Sarah and Stewart and it's the right place and the right time. When they had someone, a beloved client service coordinator for many years retiring, they had the opportunity to, to be looking for someone and, um, kind of lined up that, that I was interested and I was ecstatic to kind of try something new and, and, um, kinda develop a, a more, in my opinion, more meaningful and more important career.

So let, let's unpack a little of that. You, uh, you know, you'd had a, had a couple of sales jobs. Um, I, I'm guessing they picked up the phone and gave you a call. How did, uh, how did that whole, uh, courting process, uh, take place? Uh, was it, Hey, would you come for an interview? What, what, what was that story? Yeah, well it was funny 'cause the only number they had for me at the time was my work number, you know, at the, at the store.

So they gave me a call, Sarah gave me a call and she said, Hey, I'd like to talk to you about something, but not really when you're on the clock working right now, uh, can I have your cell phone and we can talk a little bit later. I had no really no idea what it was going on at the time. Um, but I said, sure, absolutely.

You know, and here's my number, gimme a call. I'll be off, you know, whatever time I was off that day. And we start having a conversation and she says, yeah, I just, as a Stewart and I were, I'm kind of impressed with how you took care of the, the service side of things after the fact you weren't just a salesperson.

And that's it. You know, if a, a lot of salespeople might potentially just say, Nope, go back to customer service. I sell the beds. I don't, I don't fix the beds. And they were impressed, I think with my, um, attitude of and willingness to help. Um, so, so with that, you know, we had a bigger conversation, a couple of, a couple of emails going back and forth, and there's even one point where they're like, I don't think, you know, I don't, I don't know if we can, um, maybe match the, the, the match the.

The commission based salary, you know, 'cause I'm making commission there and, and I was like, well, hold up. You know, it's not, not just that, you know, it's, it's the value of having a nine to five, uh, Monday through Friday job that lines up with my wife's schedule. It's the value of having a position I can grow in and, and develop my own skills and, and feel proud of.

So, so with that, with that reply, you know, they're like, okay, well why don't you come in and have an interview with the whole team and we'll see what happens. We'll, we'll go from there. Well, we obviously know that that went well as you, as you think back through that process, um. Somewhat of a, a some would argue a quantum leap from, uh, being in a, in, in a sales environment on the retail side to, to moving into the world of wealth management.

Um, was, was there anything that, that ever gave you pause, uh, that caused you to think, you know, is, is this really the, the right play for me? Or, you know, was it because of the people on the other side? Because, you know, anytime you're, you're recruiting someone, I mean. The person you're recruiting is also evaluating you and, you know, trying to make a determination, Hey, is this the, is this the right type of environment?

Is this the right culture that I wanna be a part of? Um, how did you, uh, how, how did you bridge that gap? I. There was never really any hesitation. I, I took it as the, the, the right thing for me at, at the time. You know, I, I was really excited to be able to, to move away from what I was doing. Uh, I felt that it was an opportunity that was given to me that if I don't latch on and, and make this work.

Will I get another opportunity like this? And the, you know, again, um, it was something that I, I didn't think about going and working in a trust company or a bank. You know, I had no knowledge of it whatsoever. I didn't even know what a trust was, you know, before I started working here. But the opportunity to, to do something better, to do something greater, to do something again, in my, my opinion, more important and more.

More worthy of pride. It was something that I was really, really, um, interested in. It was something I really desire, something I really wanted, and, and when the opportunity was presented, I didn't wanna let it go. Okay, so if I unpack the conversation to date, um, a, uh, the right type of service orientation, the focus on, and you've, you've repeated this at least three times, and I wanna, I wanna emphasize it.

Uh, being the type of individual that does the right thing. If you do the right thing when everybody's looking, that's great. When you do the right thing, when nobody's looking, except for the person maybe that you're helping. Uh, that, that certainly says a lot about, uh, character. It says a lot about, uh, attention to, uh, to detail.

And then when you find yourself around the right opportunity, uh, that's, that's something you wanna pursue. Uh, and, uh, so that's, that. That's interesting. So tell me, uh, tell me this, what, uh, what have you learned about this business of trust? And remind listeners how long you've been doing this. Yeah. So, uh, I've been doing it for about two and a half years now.

Three years will be, uh, May 1st of next year. So, all right. Yeah. So what, what, what have, what have you learned in that two and a half years? And again, I'm not. Not, not asking, what'd you learn about trust at Trust school? But what have you learned about the, uh, uh, about the industry, about the people that you get to, uh, work with, work for, and serve as clients?

What, what, what's been your, uh, your impressions? Yeah. I've learned that it's really still about relationships. It's really about. Well, like I've said a million times already today, like you pointed out, doing the right thing for your clients, doing the right thing for your clients is what's gonna be most important to them.

Listening to what they need and what they want to do and helping 'em achieve those goals. That's the key. That's really the key I think, Phil. Well, you know, when you, when you lay it out that way, it is a reminder that this business should never be as complicated as it is sometimes made out to be. Uh, yes.

There's a lot of, there's a lot of technical things that one needs to develop their knowledge and prowess in you. There's the tax side of the business, there's the legal side of the business, there's the asset management side, and, and there are all these things that. That have to be running in the background, but at the end of the day, the client wants to know that you care and that they've got someone that's advocating for their interest, their wants, their needs, their desires, and if you don't know the answer or have ready access to it, if, if it's not in your brain, that's the great thing about being part of a team is you've got the ability to go get that.

That situation solved. Right. That's right. That's right. A a and you know, that's an interesting point there. It's, it's nice to, to attend those trust schools one and two, and meet all these wonderful people from across the nation and have an even bigger team when you need it. You know, I've, I've actually met a, a good number of people there that we're still connect with and, and, um, you know, when something comes up, you can, you can send 'em an email, you can give 'em a phone call and, and reach out and find answers even outside of your own individual organization.

Yeah. So, um, and I'm not sure whether it's millennial or or Gen Z, but you know, one of the things that we hear, you know, the rising generation just doesn't get it. The rising generation is too married to their technology, et cetera. They don't, uh, they're not as adept at having conversations. Uh, you certainly disabuse that notion in spades, uh, the way that you engage with people, the way that.

Uh, uh, you've, you've got the ability to, to converse, uh, the way that you are proactive in the way that you serve. And so, um, I've got, I, I've got a millennial, uh, child and I've got a Gen Z child and you know, you always think your own children are, are unique and special. And I've always been proud that they are very proactive.

They're, they're, they're great conversationalists. Um. As you look at, at your generation and, and what they're doing right now, um, is there any advice that you would offer, uh, to those in your generation about, you know, how to be more, uh, in, in, in, partly it's here, more service focused, more, uh, concentrating on doing the right thing versus just always being technically proficient.

Any any thoughts or ideas that you'd share on that? Yeah. Yeah. I think just caring, I think caring about doing the right thing, caring about doing a good job, wanting, wanting to provide a good service and wanting people to want to work with you. You know, it's, um, kind of a common saying. People prefer to work with who they know and who they like, and I think that, I think that you.

Well, I think you become known and become liked by developing relationships and caring about the people you're working with. You know, there's a number of clients here who, in the short term, short term I've been here really developed good relationships with. And, you know, when I pick up the phone, I'm excited to talk to them.

They're excited to talk to me. And, and, and, you know, I was just a client service coordinator for, for the first. Majority of, of the role here. And, um, I think caring. I think just caring about doing a good job, caring about making sure people like you and wanna work with you. I think it's just that simple word of caring.

Well, uh, Ira, you certainly, uh, you convey that, uh, in your, your toad in your technique, but most importantly, you, you demonstrate that through your actions and, uh, and that is, uh, that is absolutely critical. Uh, my guess is that they're going to be a lot of, uh, a lot of recruiters and a lot of, uh, business leaders.

Uh, who may, uh, after hearing this podcast go out and shop for a new bed, hoping to find the next Ira. Mm-hmm. Uh, but the, the, the thing that I would, uh, I would just encourage all of us to remember is when you have a great, uh, experience as a, uh, as a customer, as as a client, whether it's with a barista, whether it is with.

Uh, somebody that is, uh, you know, uh, providing any type of of service. Uh, when you say, you know, I wish that, that our people could be more like X or, I wish I had more of that type of, uh, attitude, uh, be like, Sarah Allen. Pick up the phone and, and give 'em a call because you, uh, you may actually have a, a great diamond in the rough and, um, uh.

Boy, the, the, the polish is, is, uh, is really showing up in what you're doing right now, Ira, so congratulations on your success. Thank you, Phil. Happy to be here. Ira Kamerman, uh, with Allen Trust Company and the Pacific Northwest. Thank you for being part of Cannon Connect. Thank you Phil. So happy to be here.

Cannon Connect is a production of Cannon Financial Institute. Executive producer of Cannon Connect is Sarah Jones. Editing and mixing is done by Danny Brunner till the time we are together again. I wish you all very well. Have a great rest of your week.